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06-11-2009, 02:34 PM
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englishlion
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Re: Latest BNP members list up to April 2009
« Reply #15 Today at 9:20pm »
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So Hound, the Belfast office never used Excel files?
Yet another lie by yourself Hound. Either you're putting this misinformation out deliberately or you're trying to imply to the good people here that you know the score as to how the BNP works, when you clearly don't. I suspect it's the first scenario, but if it's the latter, then I'm afraid I'm going to shatter your self-image to the members here once again.
Firstly, the idea of a secure system in cyberspace was touted by Jim Dowson but, as per usual, this big idea never materialised.
ALL data sent to the Belfast office was in Excel format. Membership, enquiries, VoF subscribers. Everything. So again, you don't know what you're talking about.
And I didn't want to have to do this, but seeing as how you seem happy to, perhaps deliberately, imply blame elsewhere for the list leak, here goes. Because the real culprits need to be outed and the people who allowed this culprit to have access to the lists in the first place needs to be booted out of the party as well.
Right, what is the big difference between the new 2009 leaked list and the previous leaked 2008 list? The new 2009 list has membership numbers on it!
This isn't "insider" knowledge, it's simply a matter of comparing the old leaked list with the new one. I'm genuinely surprised that no one has picked up on this and commented on it.
Anyone who is on the new list: Check your membership number on the new list with the membership number on your BNP membership card. Is it the same?
Thought so. Mine is too, as are all of the BNP members I've talked to. Right, this now proves that the new list is NOT, repeat NOT, a "forgery." How could it be? The old list didn't have membership numbers on it. The new list has, with correct membership numbers on. What, did the "forger" correctly guess thousands of correct BNP membership numbers when they were "forging" this list? Who is the "forger", Uri Geller?!
So Nick Griffin and the BNP leadership are lying out of their backsides when they say that the new leaked list is a "forgery." So, why would they lie outright to their membership about such a serious matter?
Well, obviously as they don't want to admit the membership numbers are genuine as this could throw the party system into chaos. But on the website they said that, even if it was a forgery, it was still a criminal offence and they were going to pursue the culprit.
And do they seem to be investigating the leaked list? Put it this way. Look at the party website and the blogs of Martin Wingfield, Simon Darby, Lee Barnes etc. the day after the leaked list was revealed and indeed up to the present day.
I'll give £1,000 to any poster here who can find a single reference to the leaked list after the day in which it came to light. Go on, try it. The whole matter has been utterly brushed under the carpet.
So for those who think the BNP is actually trying to find the culprit, you'll have a long wait. And the long wait is because of the following:
Look at the format of the leaked list. It's not a full membership list. It's not a full list of anything in particular. What it IS, is a list from various official BNP sources, of either people who are members, lapsed members, enquirers or VoF subscribers.
And again, look at the format a bit more closely. A lot of the list has, for example, categories of those who are all standard members/ Gold members. Hands up here all those who are standard members who have had a phone call from the Belfast office saying, "hello, it's your lucky day! You are now entitled to upgrade to gold membership..." I know I have. Or another list would be "hello, why haven't you subscribed to the VoF yet?"
If you think in terms of telesales, the list suddenly starts to make a lot more sense. All you need is the person's name, number, membership status and membership number (in case the person you phone up says, "how do I know you're from the BNP?" to which the telesales person can say, "because your membership number is .....")
And a great deal of the new leaked list deals with members who are lapsed, for example people who didn't rejoin at the end of 2007. Now as to Hound's lie that the Stroud office was responsible fo the leak, sorry mate, but not only did the Stroud office have NO access to the membership list, they also had no access to lapsed members either.
But who DID have access to lapsed members? Could it have possibly been the Belfast office, who Jim Dowson said on the BNP website were in the process of phoning up lapsed members to rejoin, one of the reasons for the Belfast office being in existence in the first place?
I hate to repeat myself, but I'm going to have to. It was ONLY the Belfast office that access to all of the lists that were leaked.
Bottom line: the list is NOT a "forgery". It's real. And the only place all of the informaton could have come from is the Belfast office. So perhaps this might explain why the party has not mentioned the issue since the day of the list leak because they'd have to explain to the membership why they thought it was a good idea to give sensitive membership material to non nationalists and non-party members in the Belfast office after the debacle of the last leaked list.
I could also mention that the former manager of the Belfast office has recently gone to the Irish newspapers and "sold her story." She (and this is the person who was, according to Martin Wingfield, a disgruntled ex-employee whom the police had visited) fully admits that she took a computer containing all of the BNP membership lists because she fell out with Jim Dowson and took the computer in lieu of wages that she felt she was owed to her.
So there you have it. Hound, sorry to burst your bubble but sometimes the truth really does need to come out. "
The full conversation is here:
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hound
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Re: Another membership leak
« Reply #19 on Oct 21, 2009, 12:45pm »
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The information on that list would have come from the Stroud office.
H
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BigMal
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Re: Another membership leak
« Reply #20 on Oct 21, 2009, 3:55pm »
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Oct 21, 2009, 12:45pm, hound wrote:
The information on that list would have come from the Stroud office.
H
Thanks Hound.
But what I want to know is HOW COME?
Someone somewhere knows exactly what happened.
We, the membership, who's details are in the public domain (again ), need to be told what (or who) caused this cock up.
It just isn't good enough to try and brush it to one side - not this time.
We are due an explanation.
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Slick-rocker
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Re: Another membership leak
« Reply #21 on Oct 21, 2009, 6:37pm »
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I'm not so sure the list IS totally genuine because I was on the LAST leaked list (I was just due to renew for my 5th year) yet I managed to get the NEW list on Wikileaks last night & having spent nearly an hour checking ANY entry beginning with my surnames initial, I WASN'T ON IT & I'M BL@@DY ANNOYED!
I was looking originally because when it was leaked the LAST time I was the only person in my family who was a member but as soon as that happened I went for family membership & included my wife (who is a TEACHER), my son & step-son as they were already supporters & were as annoyed as I was at the Red scum taking advantage of the actions of two traitors.
I think the theory put forward by Nick may be correct, that is was a re-hash of PARTS of the old list, with a few new names added but God knows where they got THOSE from.
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englishlion
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Re: Another membership leak
« Reply #22 on Oct 21, 2009, 7:07pm »
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Oct 21, 2009, 12:45pm, hound wrote:
The information on that list would have come from the Stroud office.
H
An utter lie I'm afraid Hound. No one working at the Stroud office had access to the members lists. They only had access to new enquiries, that were then shipped on to Belfast. Who DID have access to all the lists that has resulted in the leaked list...
So I'd get your facts straight before casually flinging around serious (and utterly false) accusations.
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BigMal
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Re: Another membership leak
« Reply #23 on Oct 21, 2009, 11:22pm »
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Oct 21, 2009, 6:37pm, Slick-rocker wrote:
I'm not so sure the list IS totally genuine because I was on the LAST leaked list (I was just due to renew for my 5th year) yet I managed to get the NEW list on Wikileaks last night & having spent nearly an hour checking ANY entry beginning with my surnames initial, I WASN'T ON IT & I'M BL@@DY ANNOYED!
I was looking originally because when it was leaked the LAST time I was the only person in my family who was a member but as soon as that happened I went for family membership & included my wife (who is a TEACHER), my son & step-son as they were already supporters & were as annoyed as I was at the Red scum taking advantage of the actions of two traitors.
I think the theory put forward by Nick may be correct, that is was a re-hash of PARTS of the old list, with a few new names added but God knows where they got THOSE from.
As I said previously Slick - this does seem genuine.
I joined dad up early this year, and the poor old bugger's on it, so this makes it seem pretty accurate.
What pisses me off is that someone, somewhere, knows all about this, and we're told Jack!! As usual!!
To my way of thinking there can only be two possible reasons for this..
1: Someone deliberately leaked it - if so they want stringing up!
2: Someone was very sloppy in their security procedures, and the whole security set up needs to be examined / rectified to prevent this happening!!
Either way, the party itself is to blame, and we are due an explanation.
Why has nothing been heard from the top brass?
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BigMal
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Re: Another membership leak
« Reply #24 on Oct 21, 2009, 11:24pm »
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Oct 21, 2009, 7:07pm, englishlion wrote:
Oct 21, 2009, 12:45pm, hound wrote:
The information on that list would have come from the Stroud office.
H
An utter lie I'm afraid Hound. No one working at the Stroud office had access to the members lists. They only had access to new enquiries, that were then shipped on to Belfast. Who DID have access to all the lists that has resulted in the leaked list...
So I'd get your facts straight before casually flinging around serious (and utterly false) accusations.
So - are you saying that the new 'leak' originated from belfast?
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englishlion
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Re: Another membership leak
« Reply #25 on Oct 22, 2009, 12:16am »
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Oct 21, 2009, 11:24pm, BigMal wrote:
Oct 21, 2009, 7:07pm, englishlion wrote:
An utter lie I'm afraid Hound. No one working at the Stroud office had access to the members lists. They only had access to new enquiries, that were then shipped on to Belfast. Who DID have access to all the lists that has resulted in the leaked list...
So I'd get your facts straight before casually flinging around serious (and utterly false) accusations.
So - are you saying that the new 'leak' originated from belfast?
I saying nowt! What I am saying is that the leak did NOT come from the Stroud office. It couldn't have. Martin Wingfield on his blog that the list was "a collection of segments comprising of some members, enquirers, lapsed members, subscribers and supporters."
The Stroud office never had any membership lists, no lapsed members lists, no subscribers lists and no supporters lists. The only people who had this under one roof was the Belfast office.
The only lists the Stroud office had were new enquirers, that were processed and sent on to the Belfast office.
So again, there is no physical way the Stoud office could be responsible for the leak.
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BigMal
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Re: Another membership leak
« Reply #26 on Oct 22, 2009, 12:59am »
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Oct 22, 2009, 12:16am, englishlion wrote:
Oct 21, 2009, 11:24pm, BigMal wrote:
So - are you saying that the new 'leak' originated from belfast?
I saying nowt! What I am saying is that the leak did NOT come from the Stroud office. It couldn't have. Martin Wingfield on his blog that the list was "a collection of segments comprising of some members, enquirers, lapsed members, subscribers and supporters."
The Stroud office never had any membership lists, no lapsed members lists, no subscribers lists and no supporters lists. The only people who had this under one roof was the Belfast office.
The only lists the Stroud office had were new enquirers, that were processed and sent on to the Belfast office.
So again, there is no physical way the Stoud office could be responsible for the leak.
"It couldn't have" - are you sure??
So, I ask again......
Did this 'leak' originate from Belfast or not?
Martin Wingfield is talking out of his ar$e there. It's all b*ll*cks, and we KNOW it is!!
As I said, I joined up my dad earlier this year, and he's on the list - so it's NOT a hash up!!! Period!
Being as you jump to the defence of Stroud, we must assume that you either 'work' there, or know a lot more about them, and are therefore keen to prove blame elsewhere.
All I want to know is where to point the finger at when my 92 y/o dad gets a nasty phone call in the early hours!!
As you may have gathered, I'm none too happy about this.
Sometimes us members do get treated as mushrooms - and this is one of those times!
We deserve to know the truth - it affects us all after all!
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hound
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Re: Another membership leak
« Reply #27 on Oct 22, 2009, 1:09am »
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I think that as this may well result in a police investigation and end up in court, we ought to be careful what we say from now on regarding this matter?
H
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englishlion
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Re: Another membership leak
« Reply #28 on Oct 22, 2009, 10:44am »
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Bigmal:
I'm not apportioning blame anywhere. My orginal response was to Hound who saw fit, for some reason, to defame the Stoud office and blame them for the leak. All the stuff I said in response about it being impossible for them to have leaked the list is 100% true and what their roles were in the Stoud office and what lists they had access to is common knowledge in the party.
Hound:
Yes, I hope the party does pursue the culprit through the courts and the culprit gets all that's coming to them. And when the culprit is shown not to be a member of staff from the Stroud office, I take it you'll come back to this thread and apologise for baselessly slinging some pretty heavy mud around about people, accusations that never had any factual base whatsoever?
Leaking a BNP membership list is the lowest of the low so before you put names in the hat, you have to be 200% sure your facts stand up and you know what you're talking about. In your case, your facts were 200% wrong but you clearly thought it was fine to start up vicious rumors about people. You really ought to think a lot more about your actions before engaging with the keyboard.
Oct 21, 2009, 11:22pm, BigMal wrote:
As I said previously Slick - this does seem genuine.
I joined dad up early this year, and the poor old bugger's on it, so this makes it seem pretty accurate.
I have to agree with BigMal.
My home phone number wasn't on the previous leaked list just my mobile. My home number is on this list. There is also a new mobile number for someone I know that wasn't on the old list and someone else's home number that also wasn't on the old list. If it not a genuine list then where did those new details come from?
As for who leaked the list, Martin Wingfield said on his blog:
Quote:
It was cobbled together by yet another former member of staff who was sacked. I understand that the police have already paid her a visit.
http://martinwingfield.blogspot.com/2009....-situation.html
I'm aware of two former female staff members that were sacked fairly recently.
englishlion
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Re: Another membership leak
« Reply #30 on Oct 22, 2009, 5:06pm »
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None of the ex-employees from the Stroud office have recieved any visit from the Old Bill so, again, not them I'm afraid.
« Last Edit: Oct 22, 2009, 5:10pm by englishlion »
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MarkMuses
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Re: Another membership leak
« Reply #31 on Oct 26, 2009, 2:14pm »
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What does the BNP have? A windoze based local area network connected to the internet with multiple copies of the membership list flying around accessible by multiple staff with no audit trail? If so, that is a security mess (even with a firewall etc.). No damn good.
Security (in both access and disaster recovery) is a mature discipline today. I hope the party review it from the ground up. A good security model is regularly reviewed and tested both physically and electronically. Best of all it should be designed so that anyone attempting to access information personally exposes themselves by what they request/receive to future scrutiny in the event of security failure. What I mean is you go on the offensive with your security model. Plant honey traps etc.
Good security comes at a cost and annoys people but I don't think the party has any option but to take this matter much more seriously.
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tomas
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Re: Another membership leak
« Reply #32 on Oct 27, 2009, 11:32am »
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Taken from Martin Wingfields site.
With regard to the list, this is not a membership list as such but just a collection of segments comprising of some members, enquirers, lapsed members, subscribers and supporters. It was cobbled together by yet another former member of staff who was sacked. I understand that the police have already paid her a visit.
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BigMal
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Re: Another membership leak
« Reply #33 on Oct 27, 2009, 12:03pm »
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Oct 27, 2009, 11:32am, tomas wrote:
Taken from Martin Wingfields site.
With regard to the list, this is not a membership list as such but just a collection of segments comprising of some members, enquirers, lapsed members, subscribers and supporters. It was cobbled together by yet another former member of staff who was sacked. I understand that the police have already paid her a visit.
Ahh well, that makes it all alright then eh?
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rayden
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Re: Another membership leak
« Reply #34 on Oct 27, 2009, 9:04pm »
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A lady in Belfast I hear, who was fired.
AND THEN ON ANOTHER THREAD:
hound
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Re: Latest BNP members list up to April 2009
« Reply #8 Yesterday at 1:33pm »
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Yesterday at 9:59am, Vickers Valiant wrote:
I read somewhere that it was down to someone who worked in the office of that damned call centre in Northern Ireland.
The "leaked list" was in MS excel format. Northern Ireland have never used that for holding details. They hold all data on a secure data software with the secure server at another location. It is physically impossible for one person to copy the entire list. The software doesn't allow it.
H
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BigMal
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Re: Latest BNP members list up to April 2009
« Reply #9 Yesterday at 7:11pm »
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Yesterday at 1:33pm, hound wrote:
Yesterday at 9:59am, Vickers Valiant wrote:
I read somewhere that it was down to someone who worked in the office of that damned call centre in Northern Ireland.
The "leaked list" was in MS excel format. Northern Ireland have never used that for holding details. They hold all data on a secure data software with the secure server at another location. It is physically impossible for one person to copy the entire list. The software doesn't allow it.
H
That could account as to why the 'list' appeared to be a collection of possible excerpts from several lists then?
But lets remember, it's very easy to convert any 'list' from one format to another, so ANYONE who had access to said list/s COULD have copied it.
And SECURE it certainly wasn't!!
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 7:13pm by BigMal »
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Bobby1999
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Re: Latest BNP members list up to April 2009
« Reply #10 Yesterday at 7:47pm »
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I'm on it again and the opposition cant even be bothered to make a malicious phone call .Same as the first one .F**k You is my response.I admit to being nervous the first time but GA calmed me down and basically apart from spam emails .Nothing up to now.
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 7:48pm by Bobby1999 »
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Slick-rocker
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Re: Latest BNP members list up to April 2009
« Reply #11 Yesterday at 7:48pm »
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Yesterday at 7:11pm, BigMal wrote:
Yesterday at 1:33pm, hound wrote:
The "leaked list" was in MS excel format. Northern Ireland have never used that for holding details. They hold all data on a secure data software with the secure server at another location. It is physically impossible for one person to copy the entire list. The software doesn't allow it.
H
That could account as to why the 'list' appeared to be a collection of possible excerpts from several lists then?
But lets remember, it's very easy to convert any 'list' from one format to another, so ANYONE who had access to said list/s COULD have copied it.
And SECURE it certainly wasn't!!
That is a good point. When I DID manage to find it soon after it had been reported, (see my earlier comment about the fact it now seems to have disappeared!), it seemed to be in loads of different segments, most of which were slightly different in layout & even the "type-set" seemed to vary from one section to the next!?
As you once said before, the point is that it WAS leaked, NOTHING seems to have been learned from the last time it happened, SOMEONE must know in the hierarchy HOW it was leaked so WHY are we still being treated like mushrooms with (as usual) no explanation or apology?
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Bobby1999
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Re: Latest BNP members list up to April 2009
« Reply #12 Yesterday at 8:21pm »
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Your a member? You take the flak ,never had any myself up to now.
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 8:22pm by Bobby1999 »
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Slick-rocker
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Re: Latest BNP members list up to April 2009
« Reply #13 Yesterday at 8:50pm »
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Yesterday at 8:21pm, Bobby1999 wrote:
Your a member? You take the flak ,never had any myself up to now.
I was proud to be on the first list & BL@@DY annoyed not to be on THIS one. At renewal time, just after the first leak, I re-joined & my wife son & step-son also joined (having previously only been supporters). We are NOT on the so-called "new" list however, which is why I don't accept that it IS a new list.
The point which disgusts me & I think, many others, is the lack of ANY constructive response to members from "on high".
I've seen nothing on the main Party site since the comment by Nick Griffin just before it was leaked, saying it was a forgery & then just after the leak when he said it was a re-hash of the old list with a few extra names & some left off.
Other than a lot of spam e-mails, I had nothing except a pathetic TWO offensive e-mails & I'm not worried but feel that members deserve an explanation as to how this sort of cock-up could be allowed to happen less than a year after we were told security was tightened following the last traitorous episode.
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 8:53pm by Slick-rocker »
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Bobby1999
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Re: Latest BNP members list up to April 2009
« Reply #14 Yesterday at 9:11pm »
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Your right of course.I'm sure the party will issue a reply soon.
englishlion
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Re: Latest BNP members list up to April 2009
« Reply #15 Today at 9:20pm »
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So Hound, the Belfast office never used Excel files?
Yet another lie by yourself Hound. Either you're putting this misinformation out deliberately or you're trying to imply to the good people here that you know the score as to how the BNP works, when you clearly don't. I suspect it's the first scenario, but if it's the latter, then I'm afraid I'm going to shatter your self-image to the members here once again.
Firstly, the idea of a secure system in cyberspace was touted by Jim Dowson but, as per usual, this big idea never materialised.
ALL data sent to the Belfast office was in Excel format. Membership, enquiries, VoF subscribers. Everything. So again, you don't know what you're talking about.
And I didn't want to have to do this, but seeing as how you seem happy to, perhaps deliberately, imply blame elsewhere for the list leak, here goes. Because the real culprits need to be outed and the people who allowed this culprit to have access to the lists in the first place needs to be booted out of the party as well.
Right, what is the big difference between the new 2009 leaked list and the previous leaked 2008 list? The new 2009 list has membership numbers on it!
This isn't "insider" knowledge, it's simply a matter of comparing the old leaked list with the new one. I'm genuinely surprised that no one has picked up on this and commented on it.
Anyone who is on the new list: Check your membership number on the new list with the membership number on your BNP membership card. Is it the same?
Thought so. Mine is too, as are all of the BNP members I've talked to. Right, this now proves that the new list is NOT, repeat NOT, a "forgery." How could it be? The old list didn't have membership numbers on it. The new list has, with correct membership numbers on. What, did the "forger" correctly guess thousands of correct BNP membership numbers when they were "forging" this list? Who is the "forger", Uri Geller?!
So Nick Griffin and the BNP leadership are lying out of their backsides when they say that the new leaked list is a "forgery." So, why would they lie outright to their membership about such a serious matter?
Well, obviously as they don't want to admit the membership numbers are genuine as this could throw the party system into chaos. But on the website they said that, even if it was a forgery, it was still a criminal offence and they were going to pursue the culprit.
And do they seem to be investigating the leaked list? Put it this way. Look at the party website and the blogs of Martin Wingfield, Simon Darby, Lee Barnes etc. the day after the leaked list was revealed and indeed up to the present day.
I'll give £1,000 to any poster here who can find a single reference to the leaked list after the day in which it came to light. Go on, try it. The whole matter has been utterly brushed under the carpet.
So for those who think the BNP is actually trying to find the culprit, you'll have a long wait. And the long wait is because of the following:
Look at the format of the leaked list. It's not a full membership list. It's not a full list of anything in particular. What it IS, is a list from various official BNP sources, of either people who are members, lapsed members, enquirers or VoF subscribers.
And again, look at the format a bit more closely. A lot of the list has, for example, categories of those who are all standard members/ Gold members. Hands up here all those who are standard members who have had a phone call from the Belfast office saying, "hello, it's your lucky day! You are now entitled to upgrade to gold membership..." I know I have. Or another list would be "hello, why haven't you subscribed to the VoF yet?"
If you think in terms of telesales, the list suddenly starts to make a lot more sense. All you need is the person's name, number, membership status and membership number (in case the person you phone up says, "how do I know you're from the BNP?" to which the telesales person can say, "because your membership number is .....")
And a great deal of the new leaked list deals with members who are lapsed, for example people who didn't rejoin at the end of 2007. Now as to Hound's lie that the Stroud office was responsible fo the leak, sorry mate, but not only did the Stroud office have NO access to the membership list, they also had no access to lapsed members either.
But who DID have access to lapsed members? Could it have possibly been the Belfast office, who Jim Dowson said on the BNP website were in the process of phoning up lapsed members to rejoin, one of the reasons for the Belfast office being in existence in the first place?
I hate to repeat myself, but I'm going to have to. It was ONLY the Belfast office that access to all of the lists that were leaked.
Bottom line: the list is NOT a "forgery". It's real. And the only place all of the informaton could have come from is the Belfast office. So perhaps this might explain why the party has not mentioned the issue since the day of the list leak because they'd have to explain to the membership why they thought it was a good idea to give sensitive membership material to non nationalists and non-party members in the Belfast office after the debacle of the last leaked list.
I could also mention that the former manager of the Belfast office has recently gone to the Irish newspapers and "sold her story." She (and this is the person who was, according to Martin Wingfield, a disgruntled ex-employee whom the police had visited) fully admits that she took a computer containing all of the BNP membership lists because she fell out with Jim Dowson and took the computer in lieu of wages that she felt she was owed to her.
So there you have it. Hound, sorry to burst your bubble but sometimes the truth really does need to come out. "
The Green Arrow has exposed himself for the traitor that he is, by removing this thread from his forum (sic) and we have it on very good authority that the "hound" is very close to Mike Howson.
Thankyou for this anonymous contribution, the members ARE fighting back in order to get the B.N.P. back on track."
http://griffinwatch-nwn.blogspot.com/2009/11/breaking-news-hounds-yapping-is.html
englishlion
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Re: Latest BNP members list up to April 2009
« Reply #15 Today at 9:20pm »
________________________________________
So Hound, the Belfast office never used Excel files?
Yet another lie by yourself Hound. Either you're putting this misinformation out deliberately or you're trying to imply to the good people here that you know the score as to how the BNP works, when you clearly don't. I suspect it's the first scenario, but if it's the latter, then I'm afraid I'm going to shatter your self-image to the members here once again.
Firstly, the idea of a secure system in cyberspace was touted by Jim Dowson but, as per usual, this big idea never materialised.
ALL data sent to the Belfast office was in Excel format. Membership, enquiries, VoF subscribers. Everything. So again, you don't know what you're talking about.
And I didn't want to have to do this, but seeing as how you seem happy to, perhaps deliberately, imply blame elsewhere for the list leak, here goes. Because the real culprits need to be outed and the people who allowed this culprit to have access to the lists in the first place needs to be booted out of the party as well.
Right, what is the big difference between the new 2009 leaked list and the previous leaked 2008 list? The new 2009 list has membership numbers on it!
This isn't "insider" knowledge, it's simply a matter of comparing the old leaked list with the new one. I'm genuinely surprised that no one has picked up on this and commented on it.
Anyone who is on the new list: Check your membership number on the new list with the membership number on your BNP membership card. Is it the same?
Thought so. Mine is too, as are all of the BNP members I've talked to. Right, this now proves that the new list is NOT, repeat NOT, a "forgery." How could it be? The old list didn't have membership numbers on it. The new list has, with correct membership numbers on. What, did the "forger" correctly guess thousands of correct BNP membership numbers when they were "forging" this list? Who is the "forger", Uri Geller?!
So Nick Griffin and the BNP leadership are lying out of their backsides when they say that the new leaked list is a "forgery." So, why would they lie outright to their membership about such a serious matter?
Well, obviously as they don't want to admit the membership numbers are genuine as this could throw the party system into chaos. But on the website they said that, even if it was a forgery, it was still a criminal offence and they were going to pursue the culprit.
And do they seem to be investigating the leaked list? Put it this way. Look at the party website and the blogs of Martin Wingfield, Simon Darby, Lee Barnes etc. the day after the leaked list was revealed and indeed up to the present day.
I'll give £1,000 to any poster here who can find a single reference to the leaked list after the day in which it came to light. Go on, try it. The whole matter has been utterly brushed under the carpet.
So for those who think the BNP is actually trying to find the culprit, you'll have a long wait. And the long wait is because of the following:
Look at the format of the leaked list. It's not a full membership list. It's not a full list of anything in particular. What it IS, is a list from various official BNP sources, of either people who are members, lapsed members, enquirers or VoF subscribers.
And again, look at the format a bit more closely. A lot of the list has, for example, categories of those who are all standard members/ Gold members. Hands up here all those who are standard members who have had a phone call from the Belfast office saying, "hello, it's your lucky day! You are now entitled to upgrade to gold membership..." I know I have. Or another list would be "hello, why haven't you subscribed to the VoF yet?"
If you think in terms of telesales, the list suddenly starts to make a lot more sense. All you need is the person's name, number, membership status and membership number (in case the person you phone up says, "how do I know you're from the BNP?" to which the telesales person can say, "because your membership number is .....")
And a great deal of the new leaked list deals with members who are lapsed, for example people who didn't rejoin at the end of 2007. Now as to Hound's lie that the Stroud office was responsible fo the leak, sorry mate, but not only did the Stroud office have NO access to the membership list, they also had no access to lapsed members either.
But who DID have access to lapsed members? Could it have possibly been the Belfast office, who Jim Dowson said on the BNP website were in the process of phoning up lapsed members to rejoin, one of the reasons for the Belfast office being in existence in the first place?
I hate to repeat myself, but I'm going to have to. It was ONLY the Belfast office that access to all of the lists that were leaked.
Bottom line: the list is NOT a "forgery". It's real. And the only place all of the informaton could have come from is the Belfast office. So perhaps this might explain why the party has not mentioned the issue since the day of the list leak because they'd have to explain to the membership why they thought it was a good idea to give sensitive membership material to non nationalists and non-party members in the Belfast office after the debacle of the last leaked list.
I could also mention that the former manager of the Belfast office has recently gone to the Irish newspapers and "sold her story." She (and this is the person who was, according to Martin Wingfield, a disgruntled ex-employee whom the police had visited) fully admits that she took a computer containing all of the BNP membership lists because she fell out with Jim Dowson and took the computer in lieu of wages that she felt she was owed to her.
So there you have it. Hound, sorry to burst your bubble but sometimes the truth really does need to come out. "
The full conversation is here:
"
hound
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Re: Another membership leak
« Reply #19 on Oct 21, 2009, 12:45pm »
________________________________________
The information on that list would have come from the Stroud office.
H
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Re: Another membership leak
« Reply #20 on Oct 21, 2009, 3:55pm »
________________________________________
Oct 21, 2009, 12:45pm, hound wrote:
The information on that list would have come from the Stroud office.
H
Thanks Hound.
But what I want to know is HOW COME?
Someone somewhere knows exactly what happened.
We, the membership, who's details are in the public domain (again ), need to be told what (or who) caused this cock up.
It just isn't good enough to try and brush it to one side - not this time.
We are due an explanation.
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Re: Another membership leak
« Reply #21 on Oct 21, 2009, 6:37pm »
________________________________________
I'm not so sure the list IS totally genuine because I was on the LAST leaked list (I was just due to renew for my 5th year) yet I managed to get the NEW list on Wikileaks last night & having spent nearly an hour checking ANY entry beginning with my surnames initial, I WASN'T ON IT & I'M BL@@DY ANNOYED!
I was looking originally because when it was leaked the LAST time I was the only person in my family who was a member but as soon as that happened I went for family membership & included my wife (who is a TEACHER), my son & step-son as they were already supporters & were as annoyed as I was at the Red scum taking advantage of the actions of two traitors.
I think the theory put forward by Nick may be correct, that is was a re-hash of PARTS of the old list, with a few new names added but God knows where they got THOSE from.
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englishlion
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Re: Another membership leak
« Reply #22 on Oct 21, 2009, 7:07pm »
________________________________________
Oct 21, 2009, 12:45pm, hound wrote:
The information on that list would have come from the Stroud office.
H
An utter lie I'm afraid Hound. No one working at the Stroud office had access to the members lists. They only had access to new enquiries, that were then shipped on to Belfast. Who DID have access to all the lists that has resulted in the leaked list...
So I'd get your facts straight before casually flinging around serious (and utterly false) accusations.
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BigMal
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Re: Another membership leak
« Reply #23 on Oct 21, 2009, 11:22pm »
________________________________________
Oct 21, 2009, 6:37pm, Slick-rocker wrote:
I'm not so sure the list IS totally genuine because I was on the LAST leaked list (I was just due to renew for my 5th year) yet I managed to get the NEW list on Wikileaks last night & having spent nearly an hour checking ANY entry beginning with my surnames initial, I WASN'T ON IT & I'M BL@@DY ANNOYED!
I was looking originally because when it was leaked the LAST time I was the only person in my family who was a member but as soon as that happened I went for family membership & included my wife (who is a TEACHER), my son & step-son as they were already supporters & were as annoyed as I was at the Red scum taking advantage of the actions of two traitors.
I think the theory put forward by Nick may be correct, that is was a re-hash of PARTS of the old list, with a few new names added but God knows where they got THOSE from.
As I said previously Slick - this does seem genuine.
I joined dad up early this year, and the poor old bugger's on it, so this makes it seem pretty accurate.
What pisses me off is that someone, somewhere, knows all about this, and we're told Jack!! As usual!!
To my way of thinking there can only be two possible reasons for this..
1: Someone deliberately leaked it - if so they want stringing up!
2: Someone was very sloppy in their security procedures, and the whole security set up needs to be examined / rectified to prevent this happening!!
Either way, the party itself is to blame, and we are due an explanation.
Why has nothing been heard from the top brass?
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BigMal
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Re: Another membership leak
« Reply #24 on Oct 21, 2009, 11:24pm »
________________________________________
Oct 21, 2009, 7:07pm, englishlion wrote:
Oct 21, 2009, 12:45pm, hound wrote:
The information on that list would have come from the Stroud office.
H
An utter lie I'm afraid Hound. No one working at the Stroud office had access to the members lists. They only had access to new enquiries, that were then shipped on to Belfast. Who DID have access to all the lists that has resulted in the leaked list...
So I'd get your facts straight before casually flinging around serious (and utterly false) accusations.
So - are you saying that the new 'leak' originated from belfast?
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englishlion
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Re: Another membership leak
« Reply #25 on Oct 22, 2009, 12:16am »
________________________________________
Oct 21, 2009, 11:24pm, BigMal wrote:
Oct 21, 2009, 7:07pm, englishlion wrote:
An utter lie I'm afraid Hound. No one working at the Stroud office had access to the members lists. They only had access to new enquiries, that were then shipped on to Belfast. Who DID have access to all the lists that has resulted in the leaked list...
So I'd get your facts straight before casually flinging around serious (and utterly false) accusations.
So - are you saying that the new 'leak' originated from belfast?
I saying nowt! What I am saying is that the leak did NOT come from the Stroud office. It couldn't have. Martin Wingfield on his blog that the list was "a collection of segments comprising of some members, enquirers, lapsed members, subscribers and supporters."
The Stroud office never had any membership lists, no lapsed members lists, no subscribers lists and no supporters lists. The only people who had this under one roof was the Belfast office.
The only lists the Stroud office had were new enquirers, that were processed and sent on to the Belfast office.
So again, there is no physical way the Stoud office could be responsible for the leak.
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BigMal
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Re: Another membership leak
« Reply #26 on Oct 22, 2009, 12:59am »
________________________________________
Oct 22, 2009, 12:16am, englishlion wrote:
Oct 21, 2009, 11:24pm, BigMal wrote:
So - are you saying that the new 'leak' originated from belfast?
I saying nowt! What I am saying is that the leak did NOT come from the Stroud office. It couldn't have. Martin Wingfield on his blog that the list was "a collection of segments comprising of some members, enquirers, lapsed members, subscribers and supporters."
The Stroud office never had any membership lists, no lapsed members lists, no subscribers lists and no supporters lists. The only people who had this under one roof was the Belfast office.
The only lists the Stroud office had were new enquirers, that were processed and sent on to the Belfast office.
So again, there is no physical way the Stoud office could be responsible for the leak.
"It couldn't have" - are you sure??
So, I ask again......
Did this 'leak' originate from Belfast or not?
Martin Wingfield is talking out of his ar$e there. It's all b*ll*cks, and we KNOW it is!!
As I said, I joined up my dad earlier this year, and he's on the list - so it's NOT a hash up!!! Period!
Being as you jump to the defence of Stroud, we must assume that you either 'work' there, or know a lot more about them, and are therefore keen to prove blame elsewhere.
All I want to know is where to point the finger at when my 92 y/o dad gets a nasty phone call in the early hours!!
As you may have gathered, I'm none too happy about this.
Sometimes us members do get treated as mushrooms - and this is one of those times!
We deserve to know the truth - it affects us all after all!
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hound
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Re: Another membership leak
« Reply #27 on Oct 22, 2009, 1:09am »
________________________________________
I think that as this may well result in a police investigation and end up in court, we ought to be careful what we say from now on regarding this matter?
H
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englishlion
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Re: Another membership leak
« Reply #28 on Oct 22, 2009, 10:44am »
________________________________________
Bigmal:
I'm not apportioning blame anywhere. My orginal response was to Hound who saw fit, for some reason, to defame the Stoud office and blame them for the leak. All the stuff I said in response about it being impossible for them to have leaked the list is 100% true and what their roles were in the Stoud office and what lists they had access to is common knowledge in the party.
Hound:
Yes, I hope the party does pursue the culprit through the courts and the culprit gets all that's coming to them. And when the culprit is shown not to be a member of staff from the Stroud office, I take it you'll come back to this thread and apologise for baselessly slinging some pretty heavy mud around about people, accusations that never had any factual base whatsoever?
Leaking a BNP membership list is the lowest of the low so before you put names in the hat, you have to be 200% sure your facts stand up and you know what you're talking about. In your case, your facts were 200% wrong but you clearly thought it was fine to start up vicious rumors about people. You really ought to think a lot more about your actions before engaging with the keyboard.
Oct 21, 2009, 11:22pm, BigMal wrote:
As I said previously Slick - this does seem genuine.
I joined dad up early this year, and the poor old bugger's on it, so this makes it seem pretty accurate.
I have to agree with BigMal.
My home phone number wasn't on the previous leaked list just my mobile. My home number is on this list. There is also a new mobile number for someone I know that wasn't on the old list and someone else's home number that also wasn't on the old list. If it not a genuine list then where did those new details come from?
As for who leaked the list, Martin Wingfield said on his blog:
Quote:
It was cobbled together by yet another former member of staff who was sacked. I understand that the police have already paid her a visit.
http://martinwingfield.blogspot.com/2009....-situation.html
I'm aware of two former female staff members that were sacked fairly recently.
englishlion
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Re: Another membership leak
« Reply #30 on Oct 22, 2009, 5:06pm »
________________________________________
None of the ex-employees from the Stroud office have recieved any visit from the Old Bill so, again, not them I'm afraid.
« Last Edit: Oct 22, 2009, 5:10pm by englishlion »
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MarkMuses
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Re: Another membership leak
« Reply #31 on Oct 26, 2009, 2:14pm »
________________________________________
What does the BNP have? A windoze based local area network connected to the internet with multiple copies of the membership list flying around accessible by multiple staff with no audit trail? If so, that is a security mess (even with a firewall etc.). No damn good.
Security (in both access and disaster recovery) is a mature discipline today. I hope the party review it from the ground up. A good security model is regularly reviewed and tested both physically and electronically. Best of all it should be designed so that anyone attempting to access information personally exposes themselves by what they request/receive to future scrutiny in the event of security failure. What I mean is you go on the offensive with your security model. Plant honey traps etc.
Good security comes at a cost and annoys people but I don't think the party has any option but to take this matter much more seriously.
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tomas
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Re: Another membership leak
« Reply #32 on Oct 27, 2009, 11:32am »
________________________________________
Taken from Martin Wingfields site.
With regard to the list, this is not a membership list as such but just a collection of segments comprising of some members, enquirers, lapsed members, subscribers and supporters. It was cobbled together by yet another former member of staff who was sacked. I understand that the police have already paid her a visit.
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BigMal
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Re: Another membership leak
« Reply #33 on Oct 27, 2009, 12:03pm »
________________________________________
Oct 27, 2009, 11:32am, tomas wrote:
Taken from Martin Wingfields site.
With regard to the list, this is not a membership list as such but just a collection of segments comprising of some members, enquirers, lapsed members, subscribers and supporters. It was cobbled together by yet another former member of staff who was sacked. I understand that the police have already paid her a visit.
Ahh well, that makes it all alright then eh?
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rayden
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Re: Another membership leak
« Reply #34 on Oct 27, 2009, 9:04pm »
________________________________________
A lady in Belfast I hear, who was fired.
AND THEN ON ANOTHER THREAD:
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Re: Latest BNP members list up to April 2009
« Reply #8 Yesterday at 1:33pm »
________________________________________
Yesterday at 9:59am, Vickers Valiant wrote:
I read somewhere that it was down to someone who worked in the office of that damned call centre in Northern Ireland.
The "leaked list" was in MS excel format. Northern Ireland have never used that for holding details. They hold all data on a secure data software with the secure server at another location. It is physically impossible for one person to copy the entire list. The software doesn't allow it.
H
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Re: Latest BNP members list up to April 2009
« Reply #9 Yesterday at 7:11pm »
________________________________________
Yesterday at 1:33pm, hound wrote:
Yesterday at 9:59am, Vickers Valiant wrote:
I read somewhere that it was down to someone who worked in the office of that damned call centre in Northern Ireland.
The "leaked list" was in MS excel format. Northern Ireland have never used that for holding details. They hold all data on a secure data software with the secure server at another location. It is physically impossible for one person to copy the entire list. The software doesn't allow it.
H
That could account as to why the 'list' appeared to be a collection of possible excerpts from several lists then?
But lets remember, it's very easy to convert any 'list' from one format to another, so ANYONE who had access to said list/s COULD have copied it.
And SECURE it certainly wasn't!!
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 7:13pm by BigMal »
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Bobby1999
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Re: Latest BNP members list up to April 2009
« Reply #10 Yesterday at 7:47pm »
________________________________________
I'm on it again and the opposition cant even be bothered to make a malicious phone call .Same as the first one .F**k You is my response.I admit to being nervous the first time but GA calmed me down and basically apart from spam emails .Nothing up to now.
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 7:48pm by Bobby1999 »
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Slick-rocker
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Re: Latest BNP members list up to April 2009
« Reply #11 Yesterday at 7:48pm »
________________________________________
Yesterday at 7:11pm, BigMal wrote:
Yesterday at 1:33pm, hound wrote:
The "leaked list" was in MS excel format. Northern Ireland have never used that for holding details. They hold all data on a secure data software with the secure server at another location. It is physically impossible for one person to copy the entire list. The software doesn't allow it.
H
That could account as to why the 'list' appeared to be a collection of possible excerpts from several lists then?
But lets remember, it's very easy to convert any 'list' from one format to another, so ANYONE who had access to said list/s COULD have copied it.
And SECURE it certainly wasn't!!
That is a good point. When I DID manage to find it soon after it had been reported, (see my earlier comment about the fact it now seems to have disappeared!), it seemed to be in loads of different segments, most of which were slightly different in layout & even the "type-set" seemed to vary from one section to the next!?
As you once said before, the point is that it WAS leaked, NOTHING seems to have been learned from the last time it happened, SOMEONE must know in the hierarchy HOW it was leaked so WHY are we still being treated like mushrooms with (as usual) no explanation or apology?
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Re: Latest BNP members list up to April 2009
« Reply #12 Yesterday at 8:21pm »
________________________________________
Your a member? You take the flak ,never had any myself up to now.
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 8:22pm by Bobby1999 »
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Slick-rocker
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Re: Latest BNP members list up to April 2009
« Reply #13 Yesterday at 8:50pm »
________________________________________
Yesterday at 8:21pm, Bobby1999 wrote:
Your a member? You take the flak ,never had any myself up to now.
I was proud to be on the first list & BL@@DY annoyed not to be on THIS one. At renewal time, just after the first leak, I re-joined & my wife son & step-son also joined (having previously only been supporters). We are NOT on the so-called "new" list however, which is why I don't accept that it IS a new list.
The point which disgusts me & I think, many others, is the lack of ANY constructive response to members from "on high".
I've seen nothing on the main Party site since the comment by Nick Griffin just before it was leaked, saying it was a forgery & then just after the leak when he said it was a re-hash of the old list with a few extra names & some left off.
Other than a lot of spam e-mails, I had nothing except a pathetic TWO offensive e-mails & I'm not worried but feel that members deserve an explanation as to how this sort of cock-up could be allowed to happen less than a year after we were told security was tightened following the last traitorous episode.
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 8:53pm by Slick-rocker »
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Re: Latest BNP members list up to April 2009
« Reply #14 Yesterday at 9:11pm »
________________________________________
Your right of course.I'm sure the party will issue a reply soon.
englishlion
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Re: Latest BNP members list up to April 2009
« Reply #15 Today at 9:20pm »
________________________________________
So Hound, the Belfast office never used Excel files?
Yet another lie by yourself Hound. Either you're putting this misinformation out deliberately or you're trying to imply to the good people here that you know the score as to how the BNP works, when you clearly don't. I suspect it's the first scenario, but if it's the latter, then I'm afraid I'm going to shatter your self-image to the members here once again.
Firstly, the idea of a secure system in cyberspace was touted by Jim Dowson but, as per usual, this big idea never materialised.
ALL data sent to the Belfast office was in Excel format. Membership, enquiries, VoF subscribers. Everything. So again, you don't know what you're talking about.
And I didn't want to have to do this, but seeing as how you seem happy to, perhaps deliberately, imply blame elsewhere for the list leak, here goes. Because the real culprits need to be outed and the people who allowed this culprit to have access to the lists in the first place needs to be booted out of the party as well.
Right, what is the big difference between the new 2009 leaked list and the previous leaked 2008 list? The new 2009 list has membership numbers on it!
This isn't "insider" knowledge, it's simply a matter of comparing the old leaked list with the new one. I'm genuinely surprised that no one has picked up on this and commented on it.
Anyone who is on the new list: Check your membership number on the new list with the membership number on your BNP membership card. Is it the same?
Thought so. Mine is too, as are all of the BNP members I've talked to. Right, this now proves that the new list is NOT, repeat NOT, a "forgery." How could it be? The old list didn't have membership numbers on it. The new list has, with correct membership numbers on. What, did the "forger" correctly guess thousands of correct BNP membership numbers when they were "forging" this list? Who is the "forger", Uri Geller?!
So Nick Griffin and the BNP leadership are lying out of their backsides when they say that the new leaked list is a "forgery." So, why would they lie outright to their membership about such a serious matter?
Well, obviously as they don't want to admit the membership numbers are genuine as this could throw the party system into chaos. But on the website they said that, even if it was a forgery, it was still a criminal offence and they were going to pursue the culprit.
And do they seem to be investigating the leaked list? Put it this way. Look at the party website and the blogs of Martin Wingfield, Simon Darby, Lee Barnes etc. the day after the leaked list was revealed and indeed up to the present day.
I'll give £1,000 to any poster here who can find a single reference to the leaked list after the day in which it came to light. Go on, try it. The whole matter has been utterly brushed under the carpet.
So for those who think the BNP is actually trying to find the culprit, you'll have a long wait. And the long wait is because of the following:
Look at the format of the leaked list. It's not a full membership list. It's not a full list of anything in particular. What it IS, is a list from various official BNP sources, of either people who are members, lapsed members, enquirers or VoF subscribers.
And again, look at the format a bit more closely. A lot of the list has, for example, categories of those who are all standard members/ Gold members. Hands up here all those who are standard members who have had a phone call from the Belfast office saying, "hello, it's your lucky day! You are now entitled to upgrade to gold membership..." I know I have. Or another list would be "hello, why haven't you subscribed to the VoF yet?"
If you think in terms of telesales, the list suddenly starts to make a lot more sense. All you need is the person's name, number, membership status and membership number (in case the person you phone up says, "how do I know you're from the BNP?" to which the telesales person can say, "because your membership number is .....")
And a great deal of the new leaked list deals with members who are lapsed, for example people who didn't rejoin at the end of 2007. Now as to Hound's lie that the Stroud office was responsible fo the leak, sorry mate, but not only did the Stroud office have NO access to the membership list, they also had no access to lapsed members either.
But who DID have access to lapsed members? Could it have possibly been the Belfast office, who Jim Dowson said on the BNP website were in the process of phoning up lapsed members to rejoin, one of the reasons for the Belfast office being in existence in the first place?
I hate to repeat myself, but I'm going to have to. It was ONLY the Belfast office that access to all of the lists that were leaked.
Bottom line: the list is NOT a "forgery". It's real. And the only place all of the informaton could have come from is the Belfast office. So perhaps this might explain why the party has not mentioned the issue since the day of the list leak because they'd have to explain to the membership why they thought it was a good idea to give sensitive membership material to non nationalists and non-party members in the Belfast office after the debacle of the last leaked list.
I could also mention that the former manager of the Belfast office has recently gone to the Irish newspapers and "sold her story." She (and this is the person who was, according to Martin Wingfield, a disgruntled ex-employee whom the police had visited) fully admits that she took a computer containing all of the BNP membership lists because she fell out with Jim Dowson and took the computer in lieu of wages that she felt she was owed to her.
So there you have it. Hound, sorry to burst your bubble but sometimes the truth really does need to come out. "
The Green Arrow has exposed himself for the traitor that he is, by removing this thread from his forum (sic) and we have it on very good authority that the "hound" is very close to Mike Howson.
Thankyou for this anonymous contribution, the members ARE fighting back in order to get the B.N.P. back on track."
http://griffinwatch-nwn.blogspot.com/2009/11/breaking-news-hounds-yapping-is.html